After our education is completely destroyed...then what?

[smcrorey]

http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=12117232

State ed board to vote on social studies standards

Associated Press - March 10, 2010 1:25 PM ET

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - The politically shifting State Board of Education has opened discussion of new social studies curriculum standards that could affect the publishing of textbooks nationwide.

The board started their 3-day meeting Wednesday. Testimony began with an address from two state legislators urging that the Christian "heritage on which our nation was founded" be reflected in the standards.

Debate on the standards has been marked by ideological squabbles over religion and attempts to reflect liberal or conservative viewpoints.

Even before the board began to address the social studies, history and economics curriculum, news cameras from national media outlets, activists and protesters filled the small auditorium.

The board is expected to take a preliminary vote this week, with final adoption in May.


For those of us who would like our children to have an actual education based in actual fact.. What do we do when these Christian fundamentalists destroy what's left of any hope of an education for our children?

Science, Social Studies, History.. What's next? Math? How are Christian _beliefs_ going to interfere with the facts of math?

How can we ever expect to raise our standards and bring our kids closer to the front of the class when we're embroiled in stupid battles to include fantasy in our curriculum? Our children will never exceed or even MATCH the abilities of students in other countries if we continue to damage them in this way.

You can have your church, you can have your catechism, and bible studies. Why are you trying to force your beliefs in a captive environment on MY children too?

Woe be to the children of tomorrow who are doomed to be taught that the Earth is flat, and the sun revolves around it.

Texas - Backward moving and damn proud of it. <spit spit spiiiitttoooo>

[claimtruth]

First, let me just say , that this is a subject that you shouldn't be upset about. There are plenty of things that you should be upset with the school system, but this isn't one of them.
Christianity encompasses an enormous number of our population and a significant part of our history and culture. Social Studies class and textbooks is exactly where Christianity should be addressed. The curriculum won't be teaching Christianity, merely studying the social aspect of it it as it pertains to our culture/history. To leave Christianity out of our social studies curriculum would be censorship and denial of actual history and culture. Including it in social studies curriculum isn't going to "teach" your children to be Christians, just like evolution theory in science class doesn't "teach" children to be evolutionists. If you look at it this way, does it help?

[smcrorey]

Not even a little bit, not at all.

First of all, there is no foundation in fact as far as these religious beliefs go. Regardless of who, or how many believe, there is not a bit, ZERO, foundation in fact. Secondly, they are not contrasting fact and fiction, they are taking away fact and replacing it with fiction.

I have EVERY reason to be pissed off about it.

I listen to these Christians who like to tout indoctrination of their own kids. That's fine. You leave mine alone, or you're going to have a problem that God didn't forsee.

No, it doesn't make me feel any better, and no, it's not right, it's not proper, and we're going to fall even further behind because of this backward thinking.

I'm glad that you people are christians. I'm glad you have something to believe in and that makes you feel good. There are places and times for your religion, and my childrens' time, and their places of education ARE NOT ONE OF THEM. PERIOD.

No, Ma'am, I don't feel that there is a single thing that you could say that would "help" or make me feel good about my children being ROBBED of a REAL education.

I wouldn't be "ok" with them replacing science with unicorns, either.

[claimtruth]

so, what I hear you saying, is that you want to pretend that Christianity doesn't exist.
If you close your eyes and blind fold your children, it still does.

Would you also like to burn or bury Leonardo da Vinci's 'Last Supper'? how about the teaching of folklore or ritualistic Native American customs, such as rain dance. Sprirituality ran through all aspects of Native American life. Should those be removed from Social Studies curriculum. Should we go into their textbooks and blot out all mention?
Why not let your kids learn about all the different parts of our history and culture? Why leave one aspect out?

[smcrorey]

so, what I hear you saying, is that you want to pretend that Christianity doesn't exist.

I didn't say that. What I said is it is absolutely ridiculous to replace fact with it. Christianity exists, and boy howdy, don't I know it! Everyone and their monkey likes to tell me alllllll about it. Just because it does exists doesn't mean that it should be part of our curriculum. Rape, bigotry, racism, murder, lechery, sodomy..All real! Belong in our kids' classrooms????

Here's my question to you: If curriculum was replaced with muslim studies, would you be oooootay with it? I think more than likely not, but who knows, you might refute that just to.

If you close your eyes and blind fold your children, it still does.

Pardon me? My kids go to church, thank you very much. That's EXACTLY where it belongs. Not in the classroom. DAMN YOU AND YOUR ILK for making my job harder as a parent. At the end of my day, I get to pull kids through homework that is based on FACT and it takes HOURS.. NOW I get to pull kids through homework and separate fact from fiction. "Forget everything you learned in school today, son, it's all bull****." Great. Awesome. Thanks.

Perhaps if Christians would go to CHURCH, make THEIR KIDS GO TO CHURCH, and put their kids in PRIVATE SCHOOLS with their own particular flavor of religious bent, then everyone could be happy.. But that's the last damn thing you want, isn't it?
God forbid everyone should have it their own way while a Christian still exists.

Would you also like to burn or bury Leonardo da Vinci's 'Last Supper'?

Nothing pisses me off more than having words put in my mouth, ct, I'm not going to dignify this drivel with an answer.

how about the teaching of folklore or ritualistic Native American customs, such as rain dance. Sprirituality ran through all aspects of Native American life.

How about them? Are they changing entire texts, entire lesson plans, calling for the addition or removal of factually based scientific method in order to get their ritualistic lore included in curriculum? I don't think so.

Should those be removed from Social Studies curriculum.

You aren't seriously trying to draw a parallel between Native Americans and whitebread christians that stole their land are you?

Should we go into their textbooks and blot out all mention?

Nope, we shouldn't and we also shouldn't remove biology and replace it with the study of the teachings of the wind spirit, either.

Why not let your kids learn about all the different parts of our history and culture? Why leave one aspect out?

Why do my kids have to live your lifestyle in order for YOU to be happy? Why can't they go to church, and leave it at that? While we're not leaving aspects out, where the hell is the inclusion of every other ********* religion out there? Why do my kids have to lose out on first hand knowledge of _ACTUAL EVENTS_ , _SCIENTIFIC STUDY AND EVIDENCE_, SCIENTIFIC METHOD_, and _THEORY_ in lieu of YOUR religious beliefs? ... And what, EXACTLY, are you people supposing to teach my kids anyway? FAITH? You're going to TEACH faith?????????

Give me a stinking break. You people. You make me shake my head in wonder. You try to portray yourselves as the be all, end all in moral and spiritual perfection, when in reality, you're a freaking rash.. You burn, itch, irritate and you never seem to go away. Take it as an affront. Take it personally. I take your intrusion into my life, my home, and my kids' educations pretty f***in' personally.

Christianity? Religion? <SPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO> Every step you people make, every word you speak, every action you take leads me further away from you and your beliefs. I almost want to thank you people for being you.. if you weren't.. I might be.

[claimtruth]

Never once, in a post have I put you down for your beliefs or ideas, even though they differ tremendously from mine. I'm sure you're an excellent parent who loves your kids and does the best you can.
I didn't mean to offend you, it's just that I don't think anyone is going to try to teach Christianity as a FACT, They just want it included in the text. It is part of our history and I don't think we should censor history. I learned about Marxism and Communism in 5th grade, and it didn't turn me into a communist, but it was important to learn. I don't think it actually will end up in the text books because of all the protest, but, maybe if it does, you could use it as an opportunity to teach your kids what you think about it.

Here's my question to you: If curriculum was replaced with muslim studies, would you be oooootay with it? I think more than likely not, but who knows, you might refute that just to.
.

Actually, I want my kids to learn about different religions and beliefs, I want my kids to make their own choices. I encouraged my oldest son to study different religious beliefs when he became curious his sophomore year and my youngest attended a Jewish synagogue last month and attended a temple service.

[smcrorey]

Sorry, I am pretty hot under the collar concerning this particular topic.

I'm going to try really hard to stop coming off as so combative. I just get so frustrated because I often feel that my opinion (and by extension those of similar or same opinion - and there are others) is either misconstrued, misunderstood, or ignored out-of-hand with no substantive rebuttal.

CT.. I'll come back to discuss this later when I can control my potty-mouth reflex and try as eloquently and respectfully as I can to explain the problems that I have with this, and many of the other decisions and discussions that are being made and had about inclusion of religious ideas and beliefs as well as the replacement of sciences and history with religious theories.

[jross]

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. It's not foolproof, but it's a good rule of thumb.

The past behavior or the TSBOE is to skew things from the factual toward the faith based, social conservative view, when given the opportunity.

I don't think that there is much argument as to the fact that people have had significant impacts on our country, society, and the Earth as a whole, in the name of "Christianity". However, I question the motives, and religious perspectives of those involved in the TSBOE decision process.

I frequently hear and read folks expressing the opinion that the USA was founded by Christians, for Christians and the support of Christianity.

I won't go into the amount of harassment and bullying that my children have gone through at FISD because they are not Christians; let's just say that it supports my belief that Christianity is taught quite enough in our public schools. It is just, not at this time, a requirement to graduate.

Here's a link to one view of how the process is proceeding.

http://tfninsider.org/

[claimtruth]

CT.. I'll come back to discuss this later when I can control my potty-mouth reflex and try as eloquently and respectfully as I can to explain the problems that I have with this, and many of the other decisions and discussions that are being made and had about inclusion of religious ideas and beliefs as well as the replacement of sciences and history with religious theories.

I look forward to it, I do want to hear what your (and other's) concerns are. And I hope you will consider mine as well.

[IronfootMcGurk]

A good class in religious history would be a good thing. In our own country, we would learn about tyranny of the Massachusetts Bay theocracy, about the Salem witch hunts, about Quakers, about the religion of slaves, the role of religion in keeping slaves slaves and in the abolition movement, about the myriads of sects founded in this country including Seventh Day Adventism, which repeatedly revised specific predictions of the second coming, about Joseph Smith and the Latter Day Saints, about Cambelites and revivalism. Religious discrimination against Jews and Catholics and so on.

Books for out of class reading could be assigned, for example, Jon Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven," and "Elmer Gantry."

Basically what such a class would do is turn out a generation of agnostics and free-thinkers.

The way to combat religiosity is not to omit religion from study, but to take a good look at it.

To an extent, I had this experience because I attended at various times Catholic, SDA, non-denominational protestant, and Church of Christ schools.